“We focused more on the impact we can help a client have and the value that impact has for their organization– Chris Yoko

On this Same Side Selling episode, Chris Yoko the CEO of Yoko Co joins us to share what helped his business grow by 40% this past year alone.  Chris and his team have been big advocates of Same Side Selling in their business. You’ll hear how Chris’s team shifted the focus from price to results with their customers and specific things you can do to make it clear to your customers that you really care about them versus just about making money.

You’re going to learn a ton on this episode with Chris

Listen to this episode and discover:

  • How to deliver amazing outcomes that lead to repeat and referral business.
  • A method to ensure that your clients and potential clients can easily compare what you do to others, using the ‘Client Vision Pyramid’.
  • What can happen when you focus on results and value, not just on price.
  • An approach to help your business development folks and internal team work together in delivering results clients want.
  • And so much more…

Are you ready to dramatically grow your business growth? Tune into Same Side Selling to get a ton of incredible insight!

Episode Resources

What’s On Your Mind

As always, this episode provides inspiration, entertainment, and especially an actionable message that can drive remarkable results – and if you have any questions for a future episode, contact Ian.


Episode Transcript

Ian Altman: 00:00 Hey, it’s Ian Altman, my guest this week is Chris Yoko. Chris is the CEO of a digital agency, Yoko CO, and they help organizations with digital marketing and web presences that actually drive results and Chris and his team have been big advocates of same side selling in their business. We’re going to talk about the keys to what has helped Chris grow his business by 40 percent this year alone, how they shift the focus from price to results with their customers and specific things you can do to make it clear to your customers that you really care about them versus just about making money. You’re gonna. Learn a ton. It’s really inspirational with Chris. Yoko.

Ian Altman: 00:46 Chris, Yoko, welcome man.

Chris Yoko: 00:48 Thank you so much for having me and good to be here.

Ian Altman: 00:50 It’s always fun talking to you. Can you start by sharing something surprising with our audience that they may not know about you?

Chris Yoko: 01:00 Something surprise. Some people seem to be surprised that I play as much hockey as I do. I try to play, you know, two or three times a week and I guess a surprising element of it would be. I’ve actually gotten to play with NHL players a couple of times, which is incredibly humbling

Ian Altman: 01:15 and you and you and you don’t necessarily limp very often and you’ve got your teeth. So that is the more remarkable part about it.

Chris Yoko: 01:22 The miracles of modern dentistry at work. I actually have lost the first four top ones thanks to a, an accident on the ice.

Ian Altman: 01:30 Oh really? Oh well so much for that.

Chris Yoko: 01:34 But at least you know, we live in modern times and they can correct those kinds of things.

Ian Altman: 01:38 Exactly. So those of you thinking about having your kids play hockey, you may want to think again, um, those who are living in Canada keep going for it.

Chris Yoko: 01:47 Absolutely. Just to, yeah, if you’re gonna play two weeks before your wedding, put your mouth garden go. Wow. Is that what you did? Really? I got, I’m knocked out. I sent the picture home to my wife, like after I got on the ice and she was like, you’re going to the dentist tomorrow. You’re getting married in less than 12 days.

Ian Altman: 02:01 Wow. That’s classic. That’s, you know what, I didn’t. I know you pretty well and I didn’t even know that.

Speaker 3: 02:07 There we go. Surprising as it is.

Speaker 2: 02:09 That’s cool. So I wanted to have you on the show because there’s some things that you’ve done in growing your business that have really, really helped you stand out from the competition, earn a lot of repeat and referral business and achieve some pretty remarkable growth. In fact, just starting right off the bat, what level did you grow in this most recent year?

Speaker 3: 02:30 Uh, yes. So for this year we had some pretty aggressive growth targets and we’re hitting it. It’s a little over 40 percent.

Speaker 2: 02:38 Yeah. So for those of you sitting there thinking, Hey man, you know, we’re trying to move from single digit to double digit growth and, and Chris’s team at Yoko is doing this at 40 percent. Um, what have been some of the keys to that growth? I mean, the first and foremost obviously is you’re delivering great value for your customers, but beyond just that, hey, we do great work. What are some of the things that are changing the conversations with your potential clients?

Speaker 3: 03:07 One of the biggest ones is, you know, part of the reason that I think we’re talking today is coming from some of the lessons that you’ve helped teach, which is as we focused more on more around the impact we can help a client have and the value that impact has for their organization. It’s been something we’ve been well intentioned about but not actually executing for a long time. So we’d have the conversations but we wouldn’t necessarily stop pursuing an activity or a possible opportunity if we noticed like maybe it didn’t feel like a great fit off the bat. Whereas this year we’ve been much better about noting, you know, okay, in the first conversation or two does this or does this not fit as a really good opportunity where we can help them knock it out of the park and if it doesn’t, let them know that feel comfortable saying no and then moving onto the, you know, focus on the opportunities. But really they can.

Speaker 2: 03:58 So I want you to spend a little more time on that because this is something that I guarantee you half our audience just now was like, yeah, yeah, whatever. And didn’t quite understand it. So many people, many people in when they’re growing their business, their focus is solely, well, do I think I can close this deal or not, can I win this sale or not? But that’s not your litmus test for whether or not you’re pursuing an opportunity. So go into that a little bit deeper. So give me an example of where you might decide not to pursue something versus pursuing something based on your feeling about what you can deliver for results.

Chris Yoko: 04:37 Yes. I mean there’s a couple of different ones and I can certainly speak to this from experience because for the longest time I was in the shoes of the person you just mentioned, which was like, oh, dude like I think we can get it as a win. Like those are the ones we should go after everything. And if you can win it, that’s how you grow. And you know, it’s not until more recently I’ve noticed I’m mistaken. That is so one of the main areas that we’ll focus on, um, as you know, but maybe the audience would not, is world web presence management agency. So a lot of what we’re doing deals with technology platforms and for the longest time we wanted to be able to remain agnostic to all of the technology and then work with organizations that really want to help have a positive impact no matter what platforms are using, we can be the guys to help you do that.

Chris Yoko: 05:18 And as technologies continue to grow, especially over the last couple years, there’s so much change across so many platforms and so many things are options that to truly say you are entirely agnostic as an organization is pretty much impossible like that or you’re just equally bad at everything and that gives you the option to be agnostic. So whenever we decided like okay look, we’re really good at helping organizations that want to make a positive impact on the world that are currently using or interested in moving over to these specific platforms. You know, things like open source content management systems, marketing automation platforms like Hubspot, Marketo, sharpspring, stuff like that. There are some that we’ve decided to focus on and really specialize in. And whereas before we would just chase after anything that was, oh, we need a new website. Oh we need help with marketing automation. Oh we need help with content production.

Chris Yoko: 06:07 It’s now really focusing on the things that we can really knock out of the park and you know, there’s no shortage of organizations that can do good work. So if we’re not going to be the greatest partner for them, we’re doing them a disservice by trying to win that work as well. So really by focusing on the opportunities we can do the best at we’ve won more of them because we put more care and concern into the ones that were a good fit for as opposed to just kind of feel scrambled and chasing after everything.

Ian Altman: 06:31 So. So how hard is it to have that conversation internally that says, wow, these guys fit what we see as our ideal client profile perfectly. They’re just like, man, this is, this is the client we’ve dreamed to have. But the way they want to do it is not the way that we would approach it.

Chris Yoko: 06:51 It has taken me four years to even get to a place where we have protocols in place to be able to have that conversation. So I realized as the personality type I am like, it is still in my nature to want to please everyone and like go after all those opportunities. Knowing that’s my, you know, kind of default nature of what we set up internally is some conversations that have to happen before we move forward with any opportunity. And we also have some people on the team that are meant to challenge me with some questions that ask exactly what you just phrased, you know, is this really the right fit? What are the, what is, if they’re not using the stack we’re on. Like what is the thing about this potential opportunity that makes it an okay exception? And most of the time it’s like, okay, you’re right, it’s not we need to focus, but it’s not an easy thing to do. Especially if you know you’re the kind of person that wants to go after and win everything. Which I think a lot of entrepreneurs and especially, you know, those of us in the world, I like business development and sales and that kind of stuff, you know, that’s kind of who we are at heart. So it can be hard to throttle back sometimes.

Ian Altman: 07:48 Yeah. And, and the, the beauty is just hearing you talk about this, I guarantee there’s people listening thinking, well, but if you do that, you’re walking away from deals and you’re not gonna be able to grow your business, but yet you grew 40 percent in one year while at the same time saying no to pursuits that on paper it might seem like they were good.

Chris Yoko: 08:10 Yeah. And a lot of it is, you know, it’s okay, we didn’t take the time to chase him, lose six deals, he narrowed it down and won two deals and that’s a better ratio no matter how you look at it. Yeah.

Ian Altman: 08:21 Yeah. And that’s. And that’s, that’s a refreshing outlook on it. So when give, give our audience a little bit of insight into what are the conversations like with your potential clients when they’re talking about a project, because, you know, if you’re talking about web presence, you know, what’s the typical discussion that organizations have had and that other people in your space might have versus the conversations that you have.

Chris Yoko: 08:49 So it’s uh, it’s fun to bring that up because that point of differentiation is one of the things that’s gone hand in hand with what we’ve been doing to help really position ourselves well and help flush out which of those opportunities are the right fit for us. I’m sure if people are listening to this episode, they’ve certainly heard you talk about, uh, what you put together with the client vision pyramid and being able to open and use something like that at the onset of the conversation. One helps level set and helps you kind of differentiate, you know, hey, here are the categories. You’re going to see people in our space plan. And the big differentiator, especially in ours is you’re going to have your design heavy shops, which you know, they might go into an initial meeting with a mockup of the potential client’s website already in hand, like, Hey, here you go, and if you’re just after aesthetics and you just want like a fresh coat of paint like Soviet, that might be the right fit for you.

Chris Yoko: 09:41 But if you want to build something that’s optimized to achieve certain business or organizational objectives and they haven’t talked to you about any of what those objectives are like, clearly that’s not going to be the thing that’s best built for it. That’s just what they thought looked need for you. So you know, we can very quickly differentiate ourselves in those conversations. The other side of that is again, being in the world of tech, you have your development heavy shops, which they’ll talk to you about all the latest and greatest tools that they can use. And Oh, we can do this in angular. React like we can get into like these more modern kits and stuff that you have available to you regardless, just because they’re need technology and they want to play with it, not because it’s the best solution for you based on your objectives and so ours is really coming into that engaged level that you talk about and being able to have a conversation about what type of.

Chris Yoko: 10:26 Again for us, it all comes back to impact on the world as a whole, so we look at that ripple effect that this organization has and then their organizational objectives, help them achieve that success and then we work everything backwards from there. So the design, the development, the build, the content, all of that stuff has to be well aligned with those objectives and we find there’s not a lot of people in our space that are having that conversation, which is surprising because that’s where you really get to chance to determine the kind of value and impact you have.

Ian Altman: 10:51 And Chris, let me, let me ask you this. So people right now are probably thinking, okay cool. So I do that. I do that through the sales process and now I know I earned that account. Then what are you done? Are you done on the results side at that point?

Chris Yoko: 11:05 And then it’s not your problem anymore in a way you go. Um, I mean that’s obviously, you know, the trick to. It’s not really even a trick. I think a lot of people think it is, but that’s the real thing that helps you grow reliably. Like it’s an ever connected world. Like if you deliver garbage worker you under deliver to those results, you’re certainly not gonna have anyone coming back to you and you know, there are some firms that may be churned through folks and then rebrand and rename every few years and do it all again. But if you really want to be able to impress those clients, you use all that information you collected in the sales process to make sure you have configured and built something that is going to be successful. And it sounds cliche at this point to be, you know, a partner in success or whatever.

Chris Yoko: 11:45 But if you feel ownership and real accountability for the thing your client is trying to achieve, you’re going to make sure that you build it in such a way they achieved those results and if you care about your client and you do feel like a partner, you tend to feel more included in their organization and you feel more personally related to their people and we find our teams usually have a lot of personal relationships develop and so if you can make it a fun and interesting experience, a positive experience working together and achieve results, like why wouldn’t they want to come back and work with you again? But you can’t tie all this up and seem like, hey, we’re gonna help you achieve these results and then turn around than just an DNL. Empty that out into the same process that you do for you know everyone else. Whether it gets the results or not, you’ve really got to follow through on what you say you’re going to do.

Ian Altman: 12:31 Actually, after you deliver whatever platform, whatever, whatever website it happens to be, you’re actually. You’ve actually built into these platforms tools to measure the results that you’ve agreed are important to them.

Chris Yoko: 12:46 Yeah, absolutely. So you know, a lot of people consider that a sale is complete whenever the contract is signed. We don’t consider it a complete until after they’ve achieved the actual result they’re looking for. So as a part of, you know, let’s say it’s a website that we’re building, right? We’ll go through, we do all the work to build it, as you mentioned. We put in the an analytic platforms to be able to help them measure towards whatever objectives they identified at the onset of our relationship and then we actually meet with them even after we’ve launched the site, usually 30, 60, 90, and sometimes six month and one year afterwards to help them look at those analytics, interpret them, understand what they mean, demonstrate how they are or sometimes aren’t moving forward towards the objectives they’ve set out initially and how do they better leverage the tools and technology and training that we’ve given them, whether that’s on their own or collaboratively. How do we do it together to get things on track and achieve those objectives are, if we are on track, how do we accelerate that? Can they overshoot their objectives, can we accomplish more? But it all comes back to that accountability and I kind of think of it as accountability through transparency. If there’s no guesswork and everyone can see the data, then it’s just a matter of have you done your job or not?

Ian Altman: 13:51 Yeah, so you’re not. You’re not sober and clicks and views or vanity metrics. You’re actually measuring the impact on their organization, their clients, and you take it even a step further and how it’s impacting their and constituents in the world.

Chris Yoko: 14:11 Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, like you said, like the clicks and likes, they’re fun to see. They’re super easy to measure, which is why so many people like to focus on them. They take literally no effort to measure at all, but they’re not the med. What metrics that actually measure impact, they can be useful, you know, indicators. So we like to use those at the beginning of the process to say, look, it looks like this is starting to build up steam and as you get more traffic, you start to get more context. As you get more contacts, you get more opportunities, you get more opportunities, you’re having more conversations, you’re starting more relationships, you’re impacting more organizations, thereby impacting their customers, their clients, their patients members, whatever the case might be. And then, like you said, those end metrics are the ones that were most interested in.

Ian Altman: 14:47 And how, how is that impacting repeat and business? I mean, over the last year, how much of that business growth came from repeat and referral business?

Chris Yoko: 14:58 Uh, almost all of it came from either, you know, clients re upping or referring us to others or people moving from one organization to another. So, I mean that was the vast majority of it, especially for some of the larger engagements we get into. And we tend to work with our clients for a long time. So, you know, being able to grow and have that many people super excited to work with you that they’re sharing the word and that they’re the ones out there promoting you and even the stuff that comes in through our own marketing, usually it’s a lot of our clients, you know, sharing stuff with, you know, their members, colleagues, et Cetera. They get passed down the line or shared enough on social media and that’s how they end up coming back to us. So even the stuff that we might have originally attributed to, you know, somebody finding us based on a certain article or something online we find, you know, if you go three steps back, they know so and so who told them to go check out this blog, you know, six months ago. And they came back and saw a case study of the work we did with their friend and adult comes full circle. So it’s an interconnected world, like you can’t get away with doing bad work anymore.

Ian Altman: 15:57 So. So this, this all sounds great and when I want to know is what are the areas that have been a struggle where we’re. Where are the challenges that you had to kind of muscle through or where are the areas that you said, yeah, we forgot to do this and it took us a while to build that within the team and here’s how we had to deal with non sales people in the organization and get them on board. What are some of the things that that weren’t necessarily easy? Because right now it’s you look back and go, yeah, 40 percent growth firing on all cylinders. It’s great, but I know it’s not. It’s never just like a straight line.

Chris Yoko: 16:38 Oh it, it just basically started in fellow of my words. If we talked about this last year, but this year has really put a pretty fine edge on it. One of the things that we weren’t really cognizant of last year that has made a really big impact this year has been a lot of the folks on our team who are on the business development front or it started a lot of these new relationships are super aware of all of the metrics and the impact down to really my new details, what has not happened as much as we’d like it to until this year has been kind of how that is then shared with the whole team. So before it used to be like, okay, that person kind of has all the information in their head and you know, then that gets translated into these kind of technical requirements and okay, to achieve this, we need to build this and do this and do that.

Chris Yoko: 17:28 And then you know, the, the rest of the team would go through and being, getting to build that. And that would get to the outcome usually. But what it didn’t allow us to do was have everybody on the team contributing in the same way. The first people that started the conversation could. And now one of the big things that we’ve done is we’ve taken a mentality of everyone on our team should have the same kind of mentality, the people starting these business development relationships and kind of the people. Most people would probably consider like a sales role and have access to the same metrics, the same ideas, the same conversations because then they can say, oh, you know what, if they’re trying to achieve x, like I know we said we’re going to build why but we might want to build z instead, which has all these benefits of why but this one trade off and it’s going to help them accelerate this payback or it’s going to help them impact this many more people or do this more easily.

Chris Yoko: 18:15 Whatever the case might be. We found that that has been a really big player in one, allowing everybody on the team to better serve and share ideas as opposed to like one or two people leading the strategy and then just having the rest of the team execute. The other thing, and one of the reasons it’s contributed so much to growth is either during or after an engagement, it’s allowed everyone on the team to notice other opportunities that we can go back to our clients and say, hey, you said you want to achieve, you know, positively impacting this many people or saving this much. You know, of the reinforced this year. Whatever the case might be. We did the website and here’s what we did here and there. We could also integrate with this platform. We could also help set up this communication tool. We could also help on this side with video production.

Chris Yoko: 18:57 Everyone’s been more cognizant and aware of how they can help and put their ideas to use to help get to this state of and impact and thankfully everyone on our team has been really, really fun about owning it and being able to take control of it and being really vocal to share those opportunities where they pop up and that’s given us the opportunity to go back to the client and say, hey, so glad we were able to work with you here and help you achieve x. we’d love to work with you further and we think we could do these kinds of things to achieve y and if nothing else, we’ve given them the idea and a lot of times, especially this year, um, they’ve been one really appreciative it regardless, but then also too, they’ve taken us up on it a lot, so it’s opened the doors to a lot more collaboration and opportunity. Cool.

Ian Altman: 19:37 And, and let me, let me ask you this. What are some of the things that you do to kind of build that culture in house so that you’ve got this common language and people, people have a comfort level when they have these conversations with clients because I got to believe you’ve got people who maybe, you know, this was a foreign language to them when they started.

Chris Yoko: 19:59 Uh, that is very true. So there’s kind of two sides that the first is getting to impact and there’s some tools, some that you’ve created that we use to get to that. So I’ll talk to that side. And then there’s also kind of the personal relationship and connection to the mission. And we’ll talk a little bit about that as well. Sure. But first things first is to get the, you know, the conversation to happen and to focus on the right things, which, you know, I know it took me years and years of just having repeated exposure to it and reminders, um, you know, hey, these are the questions that need to ask before it became muscle memory. And so those are things that we’re now trying to get into people’s muscle memory a little bit more quickly. So one of the things that you’ve created that we use a lot for that is, uh, obviously, you know, the same side selling Improv deck. Yep. Yup.

Ian Altman: 20:41 The idea of same side Improv is that you, you basically have three characters in Improv or roleplay session where we have the salesperson, the customer or prospect and an observer. And then in each round you’ve got about 10 minutes. We’re measuring it against the same side quadrants. I’m so we’re seeing how they’re doing in terms of capturing information about issue impact, importance, results, others impacted. And the cards make it so that each round you’re getting a different experience. So different little hidden objections come up or hidden objectives for the prospect. So you get experience using that. So with that background, how’s that working with your team?

Chris Yoko: 21:25 Yeah, so that’s been one of the tools we use to make that muscle memory. So like the way I learned how to have those conversations as you know, I met you and I had been exposed to a lot of the work that you’ve done and then I would just go through and fail my way through conversation after conversation for several years and get slightly better each time, which is not a great scalable strategy. So we use the same site Improv deck to basically enable people to make that muscle memory and we do that across the entirety of the team so that everyone has exposure to those conversations. And you never know when, you know, a project manager or a designer or somebody might be on a call with a client and these things start to come up and they’re the ones having those conversations. So whereas I know I’ve heard a lot of people talk about having their salespeople and their business development people use this game.

Chris Yoko: 22:07 I find it’s really useful for everybody on the team to have this level of exposure. And then what it helps you do is it just helps you kind of fail faster and safer place. So like practice with sports or practice training or practice with anything else. You get a chance to go in there and it’s a safe environment, you know, you’ve got to have your colleagues around you who aren’t going to give you too much grief. And then we go through, we actually play the game and you start to really understand like, hey, you missed asking these questions that would have gotten you to impact or hey you got. I know one that we fall into all the time is we go so deep into as soon as the problem is announced, like technically how to solve it and what kind of ideas could we use to solve it that we forget to pause and see like hey, is this worth solving? So we’re constantly like, still to this day like, hey, like you got into how, let’s talk about that.

Ian Altman: 22:50 You’re not alone, you’re not alone. That’s one of the most common things because people say, wait, I know how to solve that. It’s like, well, but that may not be the issue that’s most important to them. Something that’s worth solving. But you just came up with a solution and probably gave away a bunch of free consulting.

Chris Yoko: 23:06 Yeah. So we, uh, we do that and it gives you a really good chance to better prepare yourself. So whenever you’re actually having the conversation with the client, you’ve already got the practicing and it’s one, I think more respective of our team’s time because we’re not just letting them go out there and practice and fail on their own and have that be like how you get a year’s worth of experiences just by going out and failing. And I think it’s being far more mindful of the client because you’re saying, hey look, I’ve put time into practicing this conversation so that we can have the best conversation possible and help you get to the impact you’re trying to achieve and the least amount of time. So while maybe somebody else can get them there by flubbing their way through a conversation, if we’re directing the and asking the appropriate questions, we can now do in 15, 20 minutes what I used to try to kind of flounder my way through in an hour and a half. And if that’s not respectful of someone’s time, like I don’t know what is

Ian Altman: 23:57 well. And I also need to give you credit because Chris is the guy who was the inspiration behind the same side quadrant journals. So I remember talking to you and you said, well, you know, I’m always, I’m struggling to keep track of what to ask me is meetings. So I created this little template for it and I thought, man, we could build on that.

Chris Yoko: 24:17 Yeah, yours are far pretty. But yeah, that I have that I still have that pad. And for years I would just make sure that I had it for every single one of those calls to make sure you touch on all the things you need to be touching on. Don’t leave anything blank.

Ian Altman: 24:30 So Chris, if there was one thing that you would give people, advice that says, look, if you’re going to do, if you’re gonna, take one step towards better serving your clients to achieve the kind of growth that you’re achieving. What would you tell them to do?

Chris Yoko: 24:45 Um, so a lot of people would probably say in my default response would be to focus on the client’s objective and impact. And that’s easy to say and I think a lot of people pay lip service to it, but it’s, you’ve got to truly care about the clients and the stuff you’re working on. Like if you care, that very cleanly resonates to the people you’re working with. And if there’s an alignment of purpose and you really are passionate about the thing you’re helping your client do, you’re not going to let them fail. Or if you do, it’s going to be basically over your dead body. And if you care that much about what you’re doing, you find you put in a lot more effort. Um, and I mean I can speak to that from personal experience as well, you know, there was a time whenever we, as an organization would work with whatever opportunities came our way and some we really loved and worked passionately on in. Some were like, hey, you know what to work and you go through and you do it and guess which ones have the best outcomes, stuff you care about. So if you focus on working only for the stuff you care about and you’re really, really well aligned with those clients, the rest of it’s going to happen.

Ian Altman: 25:42 That’s awesome. Hey Chris, what’s the best way for people to connect with you and learn more about what you’re doing?

Chris Yoko: 25:48 Uh, you can find our company is Yoko CEO. Why? Okay. [inaudible] DOT com. And then you can just find me at [inaudible] dot com or on twitter or facebook or any of those places. But usually, you know, hit me up on the website is probably the best way.

Ian Altman: 26:02 Excellent man, thanks so much for for sharing your journey and experience in a. I hope it helps other people achieve the same type of results and I just want to know what growth’s going to be like next year.

Chris Yoko: 26:15 No, my pleasure. I hope it’s useful for people and yeah, looking forward to an exciting year in 2019. Thank you so much for having me. You Bet.

Ian Altman: 26:23 Let me give you a quick 32nd recap of the key information I think you can use and apply to your business right away to get that 40 percent growth. Chris is making sure they deliver amazing outcomes that lead to repeat and referral business. He’s also using the client vision pyramid to ensure that his clients and potential clients can easily compare what He does to others. He’s focusing on results and value, not just on price, and he’s making sure that as business development folks know the impact and they share that with their own internal team to ensure they’re delivering the results that clients want. Remember, this show gets direction from you, the listener. If there’s a guest I should have on or a topic I should cover, just drop me a note to Ian and Ian Altman.com. Have an amazing week. Add value and grow revenue in a way everybody can embrace, especially your customer.

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